'The Interview': George Saunders Says Ditching These Three Delusions Can Save You - The Daily Recap

Podcast: The Daily

Published: 2026-01-10

Duration: 52 minutes

Guests: George Saunders

Summary

George Saunders discusses the importance of kindness, the impact of capitalism, and how meditation helps separate self from identity, providing a clearer perspective on life and death.

What Happened

George Saunders begins by reflecting on his literary career and the accolades he has received, including the National Book Foundation's Medal for Distinguished Contribution to American Letters and the Booker Prize for his novel 'Lincoln in the Bardo.' He has been teaching at Syracuse's creative writing MFA program since 1996 and has distilled his teaching experiences into the bestseller 'A Swim in a Pond in the Rain,' which offers insights into Russian short stories.

Saunders talks about his new novel 'Vigil,' which explores themes of determinism and responsibility through its characters, including KJ Boone, a climate change denial architect. He contrasts this character's beliefs with his own evolution from being influenced by Ayn Rand's philosophy to rejecting it after an epiphany in Singapore. This change led him to a deeper understanding of capitalism's dual nature - both meaner and more beautiful over time.

The conversation shifts to Saunders' practice of Buddhism and meditation, which he credits with helping him gain perspective and distance from his self. By separating thoughts from identity, Saunders finds that the idea of death becomes less frightening. He shares a personal anecdote about receiving a rude email and turning it into a moment of connection, illustrating his belief in the value of human contact.

Saunders emphasizes that literature can have a sacramental value, offering moments of expansiveness and generosity. He suggests integrating literature into education by having students read a Chekhov story weekly, which he believes could build confidence and perception among young readers.

Reflecting on his career, Saunders notes that the cultural prominence of fiction has diminished, but its importance remains significant for him and his students. He discusses how writing can lead to incremental changes in consciousness for both the writer and the reader, making the art form invaluable.

Saunders concludes by discussing the concept of karma as a long-range cause and effect, though not always discernible. He shares a personal story about revisiting his college, reflecting on his past ambitions, and acknowledges the growth and achievements he has experienced since then.

Key Insights