Julian Barnes in conversation with Ian McEwan (Part Two) - intelligence-squared-u-s-debates Recap

Podcast: intelligence-squared-u-s-debates

Published: 2026-02-03

Duration: 43 minutes

Guests: Julian Barnes, Ian McEwan

Summary

Julian Barnes and Ian McEwan discuss themes from Barnes' final novel 'Departures', touching on memory, mortality, and the passage of time, while reflecting on their literary careers.

What Happened

Julian Barnes and Ian McEwan, both celebrated British novelists, engage in a profound dialogue about Barnes' latest and final novel, 'Departures'. The novel follows characters Stephen and Jean, exploring themes of love across different life stages, while also delving into philosophical questions about memory, art, and mortality. Barnes reflects on the impact of aging on his writing, tying his personal experiences to the narrative of his book, including the presence of a real dog named Jimmy that signifies a personal touch in his storytelling.

As Barnes contemplates the conclusion of his writing career, he shares how reading and life are interconnected, emphasizing how literature deepens one's understanding of life's complexities. He highlights the challenge of revisiting 'War and Peace' due to the influence of opiate painkillers, and his enlightening experience with a new edition of Dante's 'Commedia', which offered fresh insights into the 'Purgatorio' and 'Paradiso'.

The conversation touches on the significance of first lines in novels, with Barnes sharing examples from his own work and others, like Ford Madox Ford's 'The Good Soldier' and Albert Camus' 'The Stranger', noting how these lines set the tone for the entire narrative. Barnes also discusses the inevitability of death and how this theme permeates his writing, borrowing from Ingmar Bergman's theory of transitioning from cinema to theater as a metaphor for a graceful exit from his literary career.

Barnes and McEwan also reflect on the Booker Prize, expressing their thoughts on which of their books deserved recognition. Barnes offers advice to emerging novelists, encouraging extensive reading as a foundation for writing and sharing his mixed feelings about autofiction, emphasizing that it requires an interesting life to be compelling.

The episode underscores the importance of not speaking down to readers or assuming greater wisdom, a principle Barnes holds dear in his writing. He describes the relationship with the reader as a shared experience, akin to sitting side by side, observing life together, and expresses gratitude for the reader's presence.

Finally, Barnes humorously describes a fictional dying message, 'We are very low on marmalade', illustrating his wit and the light-hearted elements that can accompany serious themes in literature. Throughout the episode, Barnes' reflections on his career and the themes in 'Departures' provide an intimate glimpse into the mind of a literary giant nearing the end of his journey.

Key Insights