Jonathan Freedland on The Secret Rebels who Defied Hitler (Part Two) - intelligence-squared-u-s-debates Recap

Podcast: intelligence-squared-u-s-debates

Published: 2026-01-09

Duration: 34 minutes

Guests: Jonathan Freedland, Jenny Kleeman

Summary

Jonathan Freedland discusses the German rebels who defied Hitler, focusing on their heroic acts of resistance and the moral complexities they faced. He highlights the betrayal within their ranks and draws parallels to contemporary authoritarian regimes.

What Happened

Jonathan Freedland, a Guardian columnist and author, explores the often-overlooked stories of German resistance against Hitler within his new book, 'The Traitor's Circle'. He details how a small group of rebels, including aristocrats and committed Christians, secretly opposed the Nazi regime for nearly a decade. Freedland emphasizes the profound moral choices these individuals faced, risking their lives to save others and defy tyranny.

One of the key figures discussed is Leo Lange, a Gestapo officer instrumental in implementing the Holocaust through the use of gas vans and commanding the Chelmno death camp, where approximately 170,000 Jews were killed. Freedland contrasts this with the bravery of figures like Hannah Solf and her daughter Largi, who were part of a resistance network aiding Jews to escape Nazi Germany.

Freedland points out that only 5% of Germans actively resisted the Nazi regime, with over 3 million arrested for dissent. He underscores the troubling fact that 95% of the population did not resist, prompting reflections on the societal pressures and fears that deterred many from opposing Hitler.

The episode also touches on the betrayal within the resistance, with individuals like Stella Goldschlag, known as 'blonde poison', who infamously betrayed fellow Jews to the Nazis. This betrayal highlights the complex human dynamics and moral dilemmas faced during the period.

Freedland draws parallels between historical and contemporary authoritarian regimes, noting how autocrats often target institutions like courts, media, and universities to consolidate power. He cites examples from Hungary under Victor Orban and Turkey under Erdogan, suggesting a recurring pattern of democracies transitioning to authoritarianism.

Furthermore, Freedland reflects on the significance of standing up against tyranny in today's world, urging listeners to consider the lessons from history and the moral courage required to challenge oppressive systems. He also discusses the role of committed Christians in the resistance, who believed in a higher moral authority than the Nazis.

The conversation concludes with a discussion on the importance of remembering these stories of resistance, as they offer valuable insights into human courage and the enduring fight against authoritarianism.

Key Insights