Not Even Mad: Joe Nocera & Jonah Goldberg - The Gist Recap

Podcast: The Gist

Published: 2026-02-12

Duration: 1 hr 0 min

Guests: Joe Nocera, Jonah Goldberg

Summary

Joe Nocera and Jonah Goldberg dissect the Epstein files' impact, revealing contrasts in political scandal handling between the US and UK. They also critique Democratic Party strategies and analyze The Washington Post's struggles under Jeff Bezos.

What Happened

The episode begins with Joe Nocera and Jonah Goldberg diving into the fallout from the Epstein files, which have caused scandals across the UK, affecting figures like Keir Starmer, and even reaching Norwegian royalty. In the US, the tolerance for political shamelessness is contrasted against the UK's more severe reactions, with figures such as Casey Wasserman losing clients and Peter Mandelson being fired due to their associations with Epstein.

Jonah Goldberg provides insights into the cultural differences between the US and UK political systems, noting how American politics often rewards shamelessness, while the UK demands accountability. The discussion highlights how Larry Summers and Leon Black have faced career repercussions due to Epstein associations, underscoring the pervasive influence of these files.

The conversation shifts to an analysis of Mark Leibovich's article, 'The Democrats Aren't Built for This.' Joe Nocera argues that the Democratic Party's primary goal should be winning elections, while Goldberg critiques the party's focus on activist-driven policies that alienate median voters. This tension underscores the challenges the party faces in balancing progressive agendas with electoral pragmatism.

Nocera and Goldberg then dissect the structural weaknesses of both major US political parties, arguing that weak parties often lead to strong partisanship. They explore how primary incentives have shifted focus from appealing to median voters to catering to the party base, contributing to political polarization.

The episode takes a critical look at The Washington Post's struggles under Jeff Bezos's ownership. Despite Bezos's initial intentions to innovate, the paper has faced significant challenges, including layoffs and a focus that failed to match The New York Times' international approach.

Nocera highlights how The New York Times has thrived by expanding its subscriber base to 12.2 million, partly through strategic acquisitions like Wordle. This contrasts sharply with The Washington Post, which has focused more regionally, limiting its growth potential.

The discussion touches on media trends, with Jonah Goldberg critiquing the monetization tactics of outlets like Fox News, which capitalizes on its older demographic. This segment also explores the phenomenon of AI-narrated political ads and the formulaic nature of TV recaps.

Finally, Joe Nocera shares a lighthearted critique of tennis players' rituals, using his son's explanation of performance reasons to illustrate how even trivial details can reflect deeper patterns of behavior.

Key Insights