Kenji Yoshino & David Glasgow: Saving DEI - The Gist Recap
Podcast: The Gist
Published: 2026-02-23
Duration: 30 minutes
Guests: Kenji Yoshino, David Glasgow
Summary
Kenji Yoshino and David Glasgow propose a shift in DEI strategies from 'lifting' to 'leveling,' advocating for systems without bias rather than traditional affirmative action. They argue this approach is essential in the post-affirmative-action era.
What Happened
Kenji Yoshino and David Glasgow of NYU Law delve into their book 'How Equality Wins: A New Vision for an Inclusive America,' advocating a shift in DEI strategies from 'lifting' disadvantaged groups to 'leveling' the playing field. This involves creating systems that are free from bias, applicable across various domains like education and workplace promotions.
The discussion is timely as it comes in the wake of the 2023 Supreme Court decision that constrains traditional affirmative action policies. Despite supporting modest affirmative action, Yoshino and Glasgow acknowledge these legal limitations and present 'leveling' as a more sustainable solution.
An example cited is the implementation of blind auditions in symphony orchestras, which significantly increased female representation from 5% to 35%, demonstrating the efficacy of neutral systems in promoting equality.
Beyond DEI, the episode touches on a recent Supreme Court decision that ruled against the use of the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA) by Donald Trump to justify tariffs, marking a rare instance of conservative and liberal justices uniting.
Lisa Graves and Mark Joseph Stern provide contrasting views on the ruling, with Graves critiquing the minimal restraint on Trump's power and Stern acknowledging the decision as a positive step. Stephen Vladek supports the ruling, suggesting it sets boundaries the court will not cross.
Critics like Josh Marshall argue that the ruling's pace shames the court, as the tariffs had been in effect for nearly a year, reflecting on the deliberative process and perceived legitimacy of the Supreme Court.
The episode also critiques the Supreme Court, with Mike Pesca labeling it a 'rubber stamp' for Trump, while David Glasgow urges acceptance of the conservative super-majority for the foreseeable future.
Listeners are encouraged to consider how DEI initiatives can evolve in the current legal landscape and reflect on the implications of the Supreme Court's recent actions.
Key Insights
- Kenji Yoshino and David Glasgow propose 'leveling' the playing field instead of 'lifting' disadvantaged groups in DEI strategies, arguing that systems free from bias achieve better long-term equality. This shift is exemplified by the success of blind auditions in symphony orchestras, which boosted female representation from 5% to 35%.
- In response to the 2023 Supreme Court ruling limiting affirmative action, Yoshino and Glasgow's 'leveling' approach offers a legally sustainable alternative. They suggest that creating unbiased systems can circumvent legal constraints while still advancing equality.
- A recent Supreme Court decision against using the International Emergency Economic Powers Act for tariffs saw conservative and liberal justices unexpectedly aligning. This rare unity highlights potential limits on presidential powers and suggests a nuanced approach to executive authority.
- Critics like Josh Marshall argue the Supreme Court's slow ruling pace on Trump's tariffs undermines its credibility. Despite the decision being hailed as a boundary-setting move, the delay raises questions about the court's deliberative process and its impact on perceived legitimacy.
Key Questions Answered
What is the new approach to DEI proposed by Kenji Yoshino and David Glasgow in their book?
Yoshino and Glasgow propose shifting DEI strategies from 'lifting' disadvantaged groups to 'leveling' the playing field by creating unbiased systems, arguing this is more effective post-2023 Supreme Court decision.
How did blind auditions impact female representation in symphony orchestras?
Blind auditions increased female representation in symphony orchestras from 5% to 35%, demonstrating the effectiveness of neutral systems in promoting equality.
What was the Supreme Court's ruling regarding Trump's use of IEEPA?
The Supreme Court ruled that Trump's use of the International Emergency Economic Powers Act to justify tariffs was not valid, marking a rare consensus between conservative and liberal justices.