Kenji Yoshino & David Glasgow: "Go Where the Pain Is" - The Gist Recap

Podcast: The Gist

Published: 2026-02-24

Duration: 28 minutes

Guests: Kenji Yoshino, David Glasgow

Summary

Kenji Yoshino and David Glasgow discuss their book 'How Equality Wins,' advocating for a shift from Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) to a focus on Equality. They argue for expanding the movement to include the working class and support dissent to address systemic biases.

What Happened

Kenji Yoshino and David Glasgow, founders of NYU Law's Meltzer Center, propose a strategic rebranding of DEI to include 'Equality' in response to growing legal and cultural challenges. Their new book, 'How Equality Wins,' outlines seven strategies for achieving greater inclusion by addressing systemic biases and embracing dissent.

Yoshino and Glasgow emphasize the importance of broadening the DEI tent to include groups like veterans and those from low socioeconomic backgrounds, advocating for a focus on 'going where the pain is.' They argue that addressing class inequality is essential for the movement's success and sustainability.

They highlight that mandatory diversity statements often lead to 'preference falsification,' where individuals may not express their true beliefs. The removal of such requirements is seen as a positive step towards genuine inclusion.

The conversation also touches on the recent Supreme Court ruling on affirmative action, which resulted in less drastic changes than anticipated but underscores the need for organizations to demonstrate their commitment to diversity by including diverse first-gen individuals.

Mike Pesca discusses the broader context of anxiety as a business model, where increasing unease is used to drive consumer behavior. This is contrasted with classic marketing theories that focus on solving problems rather than maintaining worry.

The episode reflects on the broader societal implications of these trends, including concerns about America's potential drift towards autocracy and the role of anxiety in modern consumer culture.

Key Insights

• Kenji Yoshino and David Glasgow propose adding 'Equality' to DEI, suggesting that broadening the tent to include veterans and those from low socioeconomic backgrounds can counter legal and cultural challenges. This change aims to address class inequality, which they argue is crucial for the movement's long-term success.
• The concept of 'preference falsification' arises when mandatory diversity statements lead people to hide their true beliefs. Eliminating such requirements could foster genuine inclusion rather than forcing superficial conformity.
• The latest Supreme Court ruling on affirmative action has had milder effects than expected, but it stresses the importance of organizations demonstrating their commitment to diversity. By including diverse first-generation individuals, organizations can show genuine progress in diversity efforts.
• Mike Pesca contrasts the modern business model of fueling anxiety with classic marketing strategies that focus on problem-solving. This approach raises concerns about America's drift towards autocracy, as rising unease is used to drive consumer behavior.

Key Questions Answered

What is the main thesis of 'How Equality Wins' by Kenji Yoshino and David Glasgow?

The book argues for a strategic shift in DEI to focus on Equality, emphasizing the inclusion of the working class and other marginalized groups by addressing systemic biases and supporting dissent.

How does the Supreme Court ruling on affirmative action impact DEI initiatives?

The ruling led to less drastic changes than expected, highlighting the need for organizations to prove their diversity commitments by including diverse first-gen individuals.

Why are diversity statements being removed in some contexts?

Mandatory diversity statements often lead to 'preference falsification,' where individuals may not express their true beliefs, and their removal is seen as a step toward genuine inclusion.