David McCloskey on Why Real-World Spying is "Too Crazy for Fiction" - The Gist Recap
Podcast: The Gist
Published: 2026-01-14
Duration: 42 minutes
Guests: David McCloskey
Summary
David McCloskey, a former CIA analyst, discusses his novel 'The Persian', which draws on real-world espionage activities between Israel and Iran. He highlights how actual intelligence operations are often too incredible to fictionalize.
What Happened
The episode begins with a discussion of Donald Trump's proposal to cap credit card interest rates at 10%, which could inadvertently harm low-income individuals. Credit card companies make substantial profits from high-risk borrowers, and a cap might limit credit availability and slow economic growth. Mike Pesca points out how the current system redistributes funds from high-risk borrowers to low-risk transactors, essentially benefiting the wealthy.
David McCloskey, a former CIA analyst and author, joins the conversation to discuss his new novel 'The Persian'. He explains that many of the espionage elements in the book are inspired by real events, such as remote-controlled machine gun assassinations and a devastating pager attack by Israel against Hezbollah. McCloskey emphasizes that these operations are so audacious they don't need embellishment in fiction.
McCloskey details how the Israeli Mossad operates with a high tolerance for risk and potential collateral damage, a stance driven by viewing threats from Iran and Hezbollah as existential. He contrasts this with the U.S., which, despite its capabilities, lacks the willingness or necessity to perform similar operations due to different organizational and legal structures.
The discussion delves into the complexities of espionage, particularly how Israel recruits Iranians by exploiting ethnic and religious divisions within Iran. McCloskey also touches on the Iranian regime's oppressive tactics against its own people, painting a vivid picture of life under such a regime.
McCloskey's novel explores the moral ambiguities in espionage, avoiding clear distinctions between good and evil. He argues that even those committing despicable acts do not perceive themselves as evil, a theme integral to understanding the motivations behind real-world intelligence operations.
The episode rounds off with insights into how real intelligence operations often involve removing elements that seem too implausible for readers, despite their truth. McCloskey shares his fascination with the intricate tradecraft involved in operations like the 'pager operation', highlighting the tactical successes that intelligence agencies struggle to translate into broader strategic advantages.
Key Insights
- A proposed cap on credit card interest rates at 10% could reduce credit availability for high-risk borrowers, potentially harming low-income individuals and slowing economic growth.
- Israeli Mossad operations often involve high risk and potential collateral damage due to the perception of existential threats from Iran and Hezbollah.
- Espionage tactics by Israel include recruiting Iranians by exploiting ethnic and religious divisions within the country.
- Real intelligence operations sometimes exclude elements that appear too implausible for fiction, despite their accuracy, such as remote-controlled machine gun assassinations and pager attacks.