THESE Are The Greatest Stories Ever Told w/ Jonathan Pageau - The Ben Shapiro Show Recap

Podcast: The Ben Shapiro Show

Published: 2025-12-23

Duration: 34 minutes

Guests: Jonathan Pageau

Summary

Jonathan Pageau and Ben Shapiro delve into the rich symbolism found in fairy tales and biblical narratives, exploring how these stories shape cultural and moral frameworks. They discuss the deep, often overlooked meanings embedded in tales like 'Jack and the Beanstalk' and their connection to religious and societal themes.

What Happened

Jonathan Pageau, a French-Canadian liturgical artist and writer, discusses the enduring impact of fairy tales and biblical stories, likening fairy tales to accessible versions of biblical narratives. He emphasizes that fairy tales are not just random stories but contain patterns that reflect the cosmos and convey profound truths about human civilization.

Pageau and Shapiro explore the idea of magic in fairy tales as representing a deeper connection to meaning and higher causality. This contrasts with modern retellings, which often lack the depth and moral complexity of older versions, focusing more on empowerment without traditional villains.

The conversation highlights how stories like 'Jack and the Beanstalk' serve as coming-of-age narratives with underlying themes related to masculinity and the growth of civilization. They argue that these stories provide essential lessons that resonate with societal structures and individual development.

Pageau notes that prayer, much like storytelling, is about aligning one's will with a higher purpose rather than simply making requests. This alignment is seen as a transformative process that mirrors the narrative arcs found in both fairy tales and biblical stories.

Shapiro draws parallels between fairy tales and Shakespeare's comedies, noting that they often conclude with marriage, symbolizing the continuation of life and societal harmony. This ties into broader discussions about civilization as a contract spanning generations.

The episode delves into the biblical story of Cain and Abel, examining Cain's transformation from a murderer to a city builder. This narrative is contrasted with the founding of Rome, highlighting the recurring theme of sibling rivalry and societal foundation in ancient myths.

Old Testament laws are discussed in terms of balancing identity and the treatment of outsiders, suggesting that these narratives offer solutions to moral and societal puzzles. The Bible, according to Pageau, continuously plays out solutions to the challenges presented in its early stories.

The episode concludes with reflections on the dangers of excessive individualism, likening it to a satanic idea in the Miltonian sense, and emphasizing the importance of roles and responsibilities within society.

Key Insights